A Different Kind of Politics

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I don't think this requires any comment from me, but the Clinton campaign makes its case here, here, and here.



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this is the Obama camp's (none / 0)

Harry and Louise add.  Shame on them.


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 11:47:55 AM EST

Re: A Different Kind of Politics (none / 0)

Well, it's true. More true than the "trillion dollar tax increase on working families" mailer from Clinton, to be sure.


by DPW on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 11:52:53 AM EST

Re: A Different Kind of Politics (2.00 / 1)

Of course there's going to be a pushback against the false charges of Obama not seeking UHC and leaving out 15 million.  There is a letter on Huffington Post today signed by more than 80 physicians, public health and medical practitioners, and social policy experts discussing the two health care plans which says:


Some believe that an individual mandate to buy health insurance should be part of this effort; others hold that a mandate would be paternalistic or too onerous for families at the margins of affordability. Regardless of our feelings on this issue, what is clear from the evidence is that mandates alone, without strong incentives to comply and harsh punishments for violation, will have little impact on the number of uninsured Americans.1 Indeed, as the Massachusetts experience illustrates, non-compliance with mandates is a large problem, absent harsh sanctions. There is simply no factual basis for the assertion that an individual mandate, by itself, would result in coverage for 15 million more Americans than would robust efforts to make health care more affordable and accessible.

The inaccurate claim that an individual mandate alone would reduce the ranks of the uninsured by 15 million draws attention away from the challenges we must surmount to make good medical care available to all. These challenges include adequate public subsidies, insurance market reform, outreach to people at the margins of American life, and long-term control of medical costs. Individual mandates may have a role in health care reform, but there is risk of a specious "Mission Accomplished" moment. It is a time for rolling up our sleeves and addressing the hard work required to get everyone care. The central challenge is to make health insurance affordable and accessible, and to reach out to all Americans to help them obtain coverage. Voters should insist that candidates for president address these very real issues.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harold-pol lack/universal-coverage-and-t_b_84386.ht ml

I see your link also contains this false charge that the Obama's plan "leaves 15 million people out, which drives up costs because everyone else ends up subsidizing their emergency care."  And since I know you as a fair person despite your use of HillaryHub as a reference I'm surprised you didn't mention Hillary leaves out 12 million illegal immigrants, a group who avoid medical care until they end up in emergency rooms.  


by Piuma on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 11:55:00 AM EST

Re: A Different Kind of Politics (none / 0)

Since every Democrat knows that it's not politically feasible to cover the 12 million illegal immigrants, I don't believe it's especially productive for Democrats to use that issue to beat other Democrats over the head with.

I would recommend to you this link and this one.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 12:08:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Different Kind of Politics (none / 0)

I don't think it is particularly productive for Democrats to use the individual mandate to beat other Democrats over the head with. If you are going to make the argument that people who can afford health insurance and yet decide not to get it somehow play a major role in influencing health care costs when they show up at an emergency room, despite the fact they have assets, then it is absolutely fair to say what about the 12 million Illegal immigrants who we know do in fact show up to emergency rooms and actually do place a burden on the system.

This is what is wrong about elevating a relatively minor policy difference to the major one which it has become.  People who can afford health care but choose not to get it is not among the major problems of health care, which we as democrats should be concentrating on.  They are:

1.  Insurance Companies refusing coverage to people.

2.  People who can not afford Coverage.

3.  People buying the cheapest coverage with the highest deductible as protection from losing their life savings.  These people pay in and get nothing back and refrain from going to the doctor as much as possible.

Those are the real issues.  And then right below that I would place Illegal Immigrants.  Imagine if all the energy directed to this mandate debate instead went in to dealing with Imigration?  Our party would be better off and our country would be better off.


by Piuma on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 12:56:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Different Kind of Politics (none / 0)

1) You cannot force the insurance companies to conduct business in a way more to your liking unless you give them the incentive to cooperate. Shared responsibility is a win-win. It's also politically possible.

2) People cannot afford coverage partially because of people who cannot afford coverage. It's a chicken and egg: the people who aren't covered drive up the risk rationed cost of insurance for everyone else. If you don't cover everyone, then affordability will always be an issue: no nominal amount of cash will fix the problem of price rationed health insurance.

3) Both plans offer a government plan with a variety of choices. Only Clinton's addresses the problem behind affordability. Obama failed Econ 101. Let's not pass the buck because he isn't willing to give up warm fuzzy generalities in order to take a stance on solving the problem.


While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama
by bowiegeek on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:00:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Different Kind of Politics (none / 0)

Obama sounding like a Republican again. Not surprised on that account.

His plan will never get through because of stuff like this. He's legitimizing the stances of Republicans and if he wins the presidency, the GOP will have lots of ammunition to defeat his plan handed to them by his own campaign.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 12:09:34 PM EST

Re: A Different Kind of Politics (none / 0)

Thanks for posting this SteveM. I've felt all along that the "mandate" issue is a red herring; Obama clearly adopted his opposition to mandates to be able to claim to be more electable.

A mandate is helpful in broadening the risk pool and making insurance more affordable, but the mandate in and of itself is not going to do much to solve our problems.

The much bigger issue to me is whether there is a public component of the health care insurance policy that is being proposed. Here's where to me Obama's plan comes up very short. I had a conversation about  this with a very knowledgeable health care activist who is supporting Obama who told me flat out it was the worst of the three plans but that he would be the most likely to get elected (ie, not Edwards) and get a good plan passed (ie, not Clinton).

I don't buy that argument at all. I'm still hoping Obama is our nominee but I do think his health care proposal is not where the Democratic party should be this fall or next year once in office.


by desmoulins on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 01:03:03 PM EST


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